Define a 'Classic'...?

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DUESIE
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plastic penguin wrote:

DUESIE wrote:

Another guide is Wikipedia, but even there the definitions are all qualified with variation and clauses. The term Vintage Car is defined as I said before but there are other possibilities, see here;

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vintage_car

There is a table at the bottom of the page that shows veteran as up to 1905 and a lot of other terminology such as Brass Era, Edwardian or Antique, but these references are all from American sources which do vary from the UK. They also define Classic as 1950s to 1970s so no help here.

For more on the American meaning of classic see here;

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Classic_car

Fair play - I think modtech is far too easy to access these days. The problems with the cyber info is they tend to deprive individuals of their own personal experiences. I like to throw the text book away, on occasions, and get one-to-one experiences. This is one reason I rarely put up links... 

Completely agree pp. I posted the Wiki link as an indication of other theories, not my personal recommendation. But it does show that there are many interpretations of the terminology. I suspect a lot of what is on Wiki is from American sources anyway, but the worry now is that for a new generation the ease of instant 'knowledge' online has replaced real research and if some erroneous claims are posted online, to the next reader that becomes fact. A slight deviation from your original question, but any ideas on how to stop the march of internet misinformation?

plastic penguin
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DUESIE wrote:

plastic penguin wrote:

DUESIE wrote:

Another guide is Wikipedia, but even there the definitions are all qualified with variation and clauses. The term Vintage Car is defined as I said before but there are other possibilities, see here;

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vintage_car

There is a table at the bottom of the page that shows veteran as up to 1905 and a lot of other terminology such as Brass Era, Edwardian or Antique, but these references are all from American sources which do vary from the UK. They also define Classic as 1950s to 1970s so no help here.

For more on the American meaning of classic see here;

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Classic_car

Fair play - I think modtech is far too easy to access these days. The problems with the cyber info is they tend to deprive individuals of their own personal experiences. I like to throw the text book away, on occasions, and get one-to-one experiences. This is one reason I rarely put up links... 

Completely agree pp. I posted the Wiki link as an indication of other theories, not my personal recommendation. But it does show that there are many interpretations of the terminology. I suspect a lot of what is on Wiki is from American sources anyway, but the worry now is that for a new generation the ease of instant 'knowledge' online has replaced real research and if some erroneous claims are posted online, to the next reader that becomes fact. A slight deviation from your original question, but any ideas on how to stop the march of internet misinformation?

In a word: No. In the world of compact components, iPods, iPads, Smart phones etc. the world has become (generalising) lazy. As a WWII researcher I combine modtech with rolling my sleeves up and travelling around the country and 'getting dirty', gaining first hand experience, rather than going to a library or looking on Wiki.

Dunno the answer but believe individuals need to make the effort... the rewards are greater knowing you've actually grafted to pocket the info, as opposed to clicking a mouse.

pimkeirle
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Hi Plastic Penguin.

Defining a Classic is an ongoing argument, basically I think that it's something that is felt, rather than defined. Vintage is much easier, it's simply a car built between the start of 1919 and the end of 1930.

GBt
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From a poster of the film that set the English old car movement in motion(more or less what Pingu said) 

plastic penguin
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GBt wrote:

From a poster of the film that set the English old car movement in motion(more or less what Pingu said) 

AGATHA: " Oh golly, slow down Roderick, I'm losing my curlers! I know this is the sports version, but does it really go from 0-25 in fifty two minutes?"

RODERICK: " No Agatha... that's those wretched Triumph Heralds. This one does it in twenty seven... downhill... with a fair wind. Such an aerodynamic contraption when only on one wheel"

GBt
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You joke about that, my dad and his brother bought a Bullnose Morris in the 1930s, and were on there way to Cornwall, and he told me all manner of Bentley Lagondas and Fast things had roared past- when a  BSA 3 wheeler came past, a gent in a peaked cap was indicating for them to pull over, no sweat, er, but one or other of the brothers protested, that they could barely get 30 MPH down hill, t'wit the copper said, sorry chaps yours was the only car I could actually catch!

plastic penguin
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Sorry - couldn't resist. Been out - the penguin fam - to a friend's 40th birthday party. Although not inebriated, I'm in fairly high spirits. A good night was had by all.

Off to hit the sack now. Nightie night.

BTW, hope you changed the clocks to BST.

cscs
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Joined: 2011-05-31

Beauty is in the
eye of the beholder – unless a legal definition exists!

So, I agree with
DUESIE (2012-03-15):

The term vintage has long been accepted as that
defined by the VSCC, meaning strictly made between 1919 and 1930, with those
before 1919 being termed veteran

There used to be a
designation of “PVT – Post-Vintage Thoroughbred” but this term doesn’t seem to
be used much these days – anyway is this “a post 1930 classic” – please define
classic, please define thoroughbred (in car terms).

Again “Historic”,
as defined in the UK (“voiture
de collection” here in France)
is older than 30 years – and thus an annually creeping date!  However, this is a fiscal rather than “appraisal”
term.  This historic does not mean
classic

My thoughts are
that the term Classic/classic needs clearer subdivisions and then all those
falling into those subdivisions can be accepted as classics.

So we have to
consider, regardless of age:

classic                              as
perceived by the owner and (maybe) others

original classic                has not undergone any major work and retains
mechanical originality (apart from wear parts) and appearance of patina

rebuilt classic                  Has been rebuilt and uses ALL original parts and
conforms to original factory specifications and can include
                                           optionsavailable from
the factory (does this then exclude the fitment of, say, Minilite wheels?)

renovated classic           approximates to the factory spec and is derived from
original parts and/or parts that may have been repaired / renovated
                                           or newly
manufactured

reproduction classic      is based on the original manufacturers
drawings and may include new parts from other vehicles – typically, the Suffolk
                                           SS100 (one of my dream cars) could be so defined - However the SS100 is a Classic in all senses!

replica classic                 “looks like” but based on a totally different car,
e.g. the 250 GTO based on a Datsun 240Z. Like the SS100, so is the
                                           250 GTO a Classic! (another dream car, but I haven't the odd 10 million lying around! 

 Without being
pedantic, where does this leave my TR6PI?  A rebuilt classic (within my definition) except
that I have fitted a new radio/CD player and inertia seat belts!

Also, where does
it leave such items as a replica classic Bugatti with original Bugatti wheels
but replica or reproduction elsewhere – should the wheels be recognised?

Not an easy
subject! Is it likely to be resolved in this forum to the satisfaction of all “classic”
owners?  I doubt it.  However, short of drawing up a list to
include / exclude all cars built before 1980 (even that date may be disputed!)
and pleasing / vexing some owners, I doubt if this will ever be resolved.

So the only
solution appears to be that some generic definition be achieved that 90% of
:classic” owners, for 90% of the time!

BTW - no slur intended on the specific cars mentioned above, they are used merely to illustrat points

John C
TR6 PI  - round the world model