Impending new EU law

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MisteR Tee
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I hope you've all heard or read about the new EU directive that could become law, which would effectively end all modifications to any vehicle currently classed as "historic"?

This would render any such vehicle ineligible to be classed as such, were it to be fitted with any parts that do not match or comply with the original build spec for that vehicle.  IE, no radial tyres, no improved brakes, certainly  not any engine or suspension mods & not even seat belts, if any of these items were not in the original manufacturers specification.

Fine you say, I'm all for originality & to hell with all those boy-racers, but how would you get on with buying exact OEM parts for your classic, how many of you can honestly say that your classic has 100% original parts, because that's what it would mean?  This could even mean using 4-star fuel,as that is what the manufacturers stated to be used, so unleaded conversions would also be outlawed!

See the link below for further information, however the initial panic would now seem to have subsided as it's patently unworkable in its current guise, but will inevitably get modified (sic) to a greater or lesser degree before becoming law.  You just knew the "no MOT for classics" law would have some repercussions, didn't you?

http://www.the-ace.org.uk/armageddon/

MisteR Tee

You're never too old to go straight (for a 1/4 mile!).

Nuno Granja
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Scaring futur for us.

The classic car owners will be the "smokers" of the XXI century.

One of this days, the law will order us to put a sticker saiyng "Driving classic car kills"

 

nuno granja

 

PS I'm not a smoker

I_Drink_Petrol
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rolymo35
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I am really surprised that it has taken so long for this matter to feature on C & SC web site. A furious whirlwind of action has been building up on various other motoring websites .On Pistonheads they have generated 46 pages in a little over 5days, that is some heat and has produced scores of letters of protest being sent to MEP’s and local MP’s all over the country, a number of people have been in contact with Ministers and Civil Servants in the House of Commons, Whitehall & DfTransport.

In would appear that the tumultuous reaction by the motoring public in protest to the proposed change in vehicle testing procedure has caught the authorities ear and in an attempt avert a high street confrontation in the form of civil disobedience they issued a statement late yesterday evening. However It may just be a sweetener to give them time to regroup and make plans,                                            research the via  :- www.the ace.org.uk, and get on top of this while you can

                                       

 

RolyMo

rolymo35
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This picture should have arrived with the above post ,it got lost on the way !!

RolyMo

rolymo35
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This picture should have arrived with the above post ,it got lost on the way !!

RolyMo

rolymo35
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This is not a new phenomenon , I have been involved for a long time ,I wrote an article for KIT-CAR International back in Dec 1989 (yes that’s right 23years ago) while resident in Frankfurt Germany and running a tuning shop for British cars to warn the British public and motoring enthusiasts in particular about the dangers coming down the road .

 

The article: TUV (Teknischer Ueberwachung) is alive and kicking and on its way to you.

British motorists are envied throughout Europe because of the vast range of sports cars, tuning parts, accessories, plus, most important of all, freedom from excessive legislation. The only freedom in Germany is the lack of speed limits on the autobahn - you can drive all day at 150mph if you feel inclined -but everything else to do with cars is strictly controlled by the authorities.

A few examples of how this works :- Tyre sizes are printed in the registration book which you have to carry with you at all times - should you happen to get stopped by the Police, or have an accident, and found to have oversize or incorrect speed-rated tyres fitted to your vehicle, a heavy fine will result or in extreme cases, your car can even be confiscated, incurring all sorts of towage/ storage charges,Think of all the aggro of being told which tyres you are allowed to fit, really limits your choice doesn’t it. ?

Every two years cars are subjected to an inspection similar to the British MOT. However these are carried out in an official testing station, not the local garage. The guys that undertake these inspections are more like civil servants than mechanics but, they are in fact highly specialised engineers trained to spot changes to the vehicle components and the priority is obviously about compliance rather than safety. Many of their advisories on rejection were nonsense and illogical but they were only following procedure.

You are not even allowed to run alternative or without air-cleaners or bumpers. There are exceptions to the rules but it is extremely difficult to take advantage of these. Modifications have to be substantiated by a letter of approval from the vehicle manufacturer authorising the procedure. Can you imagine how difficult it would be to find someone at (MG Division) to authorise any none standard item on an MG product built back in the old BL days?

Having obtained all the necessary paperwork i.e.:- Makers approval letter, technical drawings of components, material analysis/spec’s report etc, it’s then possible to approach the authorities for examination and certification. After which comes the famed Teutonic phrase: - “Ve haf vays of making you pay!!”

Unfortunately it appears that the scale of charges are geared to the multi-million budgets of the major manufacturers, a lot of the operations are listed as fixed priced charges costing thousands. To give some examples (at 1989 rates). To fit wider wheels and tyres on a Pontiac Trans-Am: - £850. To fit Sidewinder exhausts on Cobra/Corvette £800. (The pavement side has to be blocked off). To fit a Weber carburettor conversion on a Ford four cylinder engine, £1500. Approval on any type of kit car is a minimum of £1000 on a one off basis (my GP Spyder cost more like £4000). Bear in mind that this only relates to the paperwork and does not cover material or travelling expenses. Even to make an entry in the vehicle title can cost per item .Most modifications can be accommodated just depends on how deep your pockets are!!

By now you are probably saying, “So what’s this got to do with me in Jolly Old England?” Well, the problem arises from the harmonising of regulations throughout the EEC. There are currently directives coming out of Brussels EEC HG for the standardisation of automotive legislation. These people have virtually no experience of the automotive manufacturing industry, very little motoring heritage and microscopic enthusiast interest, so don’t expect them to exhibit the slightest Soul or Emotion regarding the total collapse of our indigenous motor hobby/tuning/ racing industry. The EEC bureaucrats have to look elsewhere for guidance in such matters, because of Germany’s historic role as leaders of the mechanised European hierarchy, the strength of the currency , influence applied by Mercedes, BMW and Porsche plus their hypothetical reputation for excellence and efficiency, it was a foregone conclusion that the TUV would be their obvious choice, being the first, strongest and most comprehensive establishment in the EEC Automotive field and most likely will represent the yardstick for the future. This is the area where most likely the problems will arise due to the over zealous application of the world famous Teutonic Efficiency which is as illogical as it is inflexible, once the arguments start , just stand back and watch the horse flies land !! Everything should be:-black & white with no shades of grey, but it will not be so! And the confusion will drive you crazy! To put this into practical terms. A kit -car built from 100% Ford Cortina parts is no longer a Cortina, therefore none of the original parts type approval data is valid and must be re-evaluated., the biggest problem is going to be the power unit which may require Full emission certification which will be prohibitively expensive.

This article goes on and covers a lot of other aspects such as :- chassis testing , body modifications , the application of specialist bodies such as STATUS and ACE but a lot of time has expired since it was written and many items are no longer relevant so I will not bore you with it , just answer one question, why have you guys been dragging your feet ? Please give this your urgent attention before it is too late. You will only get one chance to fight this and there will be no going back.

RolyMo

rolymo35
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Joined: 2011-06-02

This is not a new phenomenon , I have been involved for a long time ,I wrote an article for KIT-CAR International back in Dec 1989 (yes that’s right 23years ago) while resident in Frankfurt Germany and running a tuning shop for British cars to warn the British public and motoring enthusiasts in particular about the dangers coming down the road .

 

The article: TUV (Teknischer Ueberwachung) is alive and kicking and on its way to you.

British motorists are envied throughout Europe because of the vast range of sports cars, tuning parts, accessories, plus, most important of all, freedom from excessive legislation. The only freedom in Germany is the lack of speed limits on the autobahn - you can drive all day at 150mph if you feel inclined -but everything else to do with cars is strictly controlled by the authorities.

A few examples of how this works :- Tyre sizes are printed in the registration book which you have to carry with you at all times - should you happen to get stopped by the Police, or have an accident, and found to have oversize or incorrect speed-rated tyres fitted to your vehicle, a heavy fine will result or in extreme cases, your car can even be confiscated, incurring all sorts of towage/ storage charges,Think of all the aggro of being told which tyres you are allowed to fit, really limits your choice doesn’t it. ?

Every two years cars are subjected to an inspection similar to the British MOT. However these are carried out in an official testing station, not the local garage. The guys that undertake these inspections are more like civil servants than mechanics but, they are in fact highly specialised engineers trained to spot changes to the vehicle components and the priority is obviously about compliance rather than safety. Many of their advisories on rejection were nonsense and illogical but they were only following procedure.

You are not even allowed to run alternative or without air-cleaners or bumpers. There are exceptions to the rules but it is extremely difficult to take advantage of these. Modifications have to be substantiated by a letter of approval from the vehicle manufacturer authorising the procedure. Can you imagine how difficult it would be to find someone at (MG Division) to authorise any none standard item on an MG product built back in the old BL days?

Having obtained all the necessary paperwork i.e.:- Makers approval letter, technical drawings of components, material analysis/spec’s report etc, it’s then possible to approach the authorities for examination and certification. After which comes the famed Teutonic phrase: - “Ve haf vays of making you pay!!”

Unfortunately it appears that the scale of charges are geared to the multi-million budgets of the major manufacturers, a lot of the operations are listed as fixed priced charges costing thousands. To give some examples (at 1989 rates). To fit wider wheels and tyres on a Pontiac Trans-Am: - £850. To fit Sidewinder exhausts on Cobra/Corvette £800. (The pavement side has to be blocked off). To fit a Weber carburettor conversion on a Ford four cylinder engine, £1500. Approval on any type of kit car is a minimum of £1000 on a one off basis (my GP Spyder cost more like £4000). Bear in mind that this only relates to the paperwork and does not cover material or travelling expenses. Even to make an entry in the vehicle title can cost per item .Most modifications can be accommodated just depends on how deep your pockets are!!

By now you are probably saying, “So what’s this got to do with me in Jolly Old England?” Well, the problem arises from the harmonising of regulations throughout the EEC. There are currently directives coming out of Brussels EEC HG for the standardisation of automotive legislation. These people have virtually no experience of the automotive manufacturing industry, very little motoring heritage and microscopic enthusiast interest, so don’t expect them to exhibit the slightest Soul or Emotion regarding the total collapse of our indigenous motor hobby/tuning/ racing industry. The EEC bureaucrats have to look elsewhere for guidance in such matters, because of Germany’s historic role as leaders of the mechanised European hierarchy, the strength of the currency , influence applied by Mercedes, BMW and Porsche plus their hypothetical reputation for excellence and efficiency, it was a foregone conclusion that the TUV would be their obvious choice, being the first, strongest and most comprehensive establishment in the EEC Automotive field and most likely will represent the yardstick for the future. This is the area where most likely the problems will arise due to the over zealous application of the world famous Teutonic Efficiency which is as illogical as it is inflexible, once the arguments start , just stand back and watch the horse flies land !! Everything should be:-black & white with no shades of grey, but it will not be so! And the confusion will drive you crazy! To put this into practical terms. A kit -car built from 100% Ford Cortina parts is no longer a Cortina, therefore none of the original parts type approval data is valid and must be re-evaluated., the biggest problem is going to be the power unit which may require Full emission certification which will be prohibitively expensive.

This article goes on and covers a lot of other aspects such as :- chassis testing , body modifications , the application of specialist bodies such as STATUS and ACE but a lot of time has expired since it was written and many items are no longer relevant so I will not bore you with it , just answer one question, why have you guys been dragging your feet ? Please give this your urgent attention before it is too late. You will only get one chance to fight this and there will be no going back.

RolyMo

MisteR Tee
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rolymo35 wrote:

This picture should have arrived with the above post ,it got lost on the way !!

Exactly, this vehicle would not, under the current wording of the draft legislation, be eligible for historic status & would have to undergo the current, stfiffer SIVA (or whatever it is this week!) testing.  All because it has non-standard alloy wheels!  Exactly how a testing body will be able to determine what parts on any given vehicle are non-standard is open to question.  Every testing station will have to have access to every manufacturers spec sheets & data for every model of vehicle, simples!!!!

MisteR Tee

You're never too old to go straight (for a 1/4 mile!).

Gerard Clarke
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Joined: 2012-08-31

I am surprised by the alarmist reporting of this story by C and SC.    I suggest that rumours of the impending death of the classic car are exaggerated.

Here is a counter view. These are my opinions. and I may be wrong, but I add that I am a practising barrister with over two decades experience, including extensive experience in EU law.

The draft Regulation is mainly about an EU minimum standard for roadworthiness testing. 

It is not mainly about modifications, or classic cars. 

The draft regulation will not prevent all modifications. 

It will regulate modifications which affect safety or environmental characteristics. 

It will allow for testing of modifications. 

It will allow for testing by reference to national legislation.

It will create a new and limited category of historic vehicles, which will not require testing. This will not effect UK road tax rules. Those are a matter for the UK. 

Many or even most classic cars will need testing, but will be tested by the standards applicable when they were new. (Note that "historic" and "classic" are not legal terms at present, save that historic has a limited meaning in the UK for road tax purposes, and MOT exemption). 

There remains uncertainty because parts of the draft Regulation and Annexes are ambiguous, and some local rules will be in place in any event.

There is reportedly no budget to implement this.   UK Government policy is to oppose major Euro-driven changes.  

There may be hassle for trailer and caravan users.

The draft Regulation is in many ways poorly drafted, but it is not Armageddon.

rolymo35
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Thank you for your support MisteR-Tee , now for the rest of the story!!!

Yes, I could change the wheels to originals, wire wheels (that means set of hubs) and spinners, do you have any idea what that will cost?

Yes, I could change the rear axle (MGB late model 3’07 ratio, LSD) back to early MGA

Yes I could change the late model slotted MGB front disc brakes back to drums

Yes, I could go on and on down this route believe me, there is plenty more to list. BBBBBBut:-

WHAT DO I DO WITH THIS:-

RolyMo